deal off the ground? one decision facing the president in the next week, will u.n. ambassador susan rice be his nominee to succeed hillary clinton as secretary of state or will it be john kerry? they are the two contenders in the spotlight as it is intensified by republicans. a new wave of protests in cairo as egypt's president expands his power on the heels of helping to broker a ceasefire between israel and hamas. new egyptian leader, same old story for the u.s. relationship? good morning from washington. it's monday, november 26, 2012. this is "the daily rundown." i'm chuck todd. welcome back from the long break. let's get right to my first reads of the morning. congressional leaders return to washington this week and with just 36 days left to avert the so-called fiscal cliff becoming more apparent that senate republicans want a deal and they would like one pretty quick. but while there may be a bi-p t

bipartisan consensus to raise taxes on the wealthy, the sides are still far apart on where the revenue will come from. staff level negotiations are a little bit more than stalled. not fully stalled but they didn't go so great last week and it's unclear where speaker boehner will get the votes for a deal that would raise tax rates. which is why he's pushing against that idea. two senate republicans up for re-election in 2014 have bucked norquist saying they are willing to let taxes ride. chambliss spoke to his hometown station. >> that pledge i signed 20 years ago was valid then. it's valid now, but times have changed significantly. and i care more about this country than i do about a 20-year-old pledge. >> on sunday south carolina senator lindsey graham also broke ranks saying the norquist

pledge can no longer be a conservative litmus test. >> when you're $16 trillion in it debt, the only pledge we should be making to each other is to avoid becoming greece. but i will violate the pledge, long story short, for the good of the country only if it democrats will do entitlement reform. >> but a bipartisan consensus to raise taxes grows, republicans insist they won't budge on kaepg the bush tax rates for the wealthiest at 33% and 35%. they've expressed more openness to raising revenue by eliminating individual loopholes and deductions in the tax code and believe they have public opinion on their side. boehner aides point to a new republican poll. in the survey 61% say they prefer a deal that raises revenue by reforming the tax code, lowering rates and closing loopholes. just 28% favor raising rates on those making over $250,000 a year. shocking nobody wants to raise

taxes. in national exit polls, a full 60% supported raising tax rates on americans making over $250,000 a year. it's all about how you word the question, by the way. this morning on "morning joe" eric cantor voiced the reason the white house believes the time line will work in their favor. >> the president got re-elected, and we know at the end of this year taxes are going up on everybody. everybody. rich/poor alike. the operational statute will by law make these rates go up. that's what's changed. >> but when given a series of options to tax changes to consider, cantor did not warm to any of them. david brooks talked sunday about the conundrum facing speaker boehner. >> republicans have some homework to do. they have to figure out which taxes do we least want to oppose? and so that's rates, that's capital gains or that's deductions. i think they're going to end up

with capital gains. >> meanwhile, the white house continues to believe they'll win the tax rate, you. and it's calling on the president's supporters to pressure congress to increase taxes on the wealthy hoping to build momentum behind their position. the president was never able to rally behind when it came to health care. today the white house is out with a report from the national economic council and the council of economic advisers to coincide with cyber monday estimating that consumers could spend nearly $200 billion less in 2013 if no 0 deal is reached and everyone's taxes go up at the end of the year. and in today's "new york times" warren buffett calls for a, quote, minimum tax for the wealthy writing let's not forget about the rich and ultra rich going on strike. capital gains rates and ordinary income rates are increased. the ultra rich, including me, will forever pursue investment opportunities. buffett calls for the cutoff

point to increase from $250,000 to $500,000, by the way. defensem democrats are facing pressure from interest groups who oppose changes to medicare and social security like this one from the aarp. >> some politicians think medicare and social security are just numbers in a budget. well, we worked hard for those benefits. we earned them. and if washington tries to cram decisions about the future of these programs into a last-minute budget teal, we'll all pay the price. >> and there's your potential pressure from the left. gop negotiators have put adjusting the measure of inflation which determines social security benefits back on the table, something the president had agreed to in 2011. majority leader harry reid has ruled that out this time and the number two democrat durbin repeated reid's position on sunday. >> social security does not add one penny to our debt. not a penny. it's a separate funded operation and we can do things, and i believe we should, now, smaller

things, played out over the longer term that gives it solvency. medicare is another story. >> there's still staff level discussions going on. and, by the way, as much as washington gets caught up in the conventional wisdom of what senators are saying, remember right now the senate are 100 ehechted pundits. the game is between the white house and house republicans for now. at some point the action could move to the senate. but right now it's about the house. it's a possibility at some point folks on capitol hill expect the white house to call another meeting of boehner, mcconnell, reid and pelosi along with the president. at some point this week. though nothing is scheduled. the first major appointment that the president makes will probably come in the next week to ten days. just two candidates are being vetted to become the next a.m. secretary of state. republicans who have opposed rice's potential nomination

began to appear just slightly more open to it. senator john mccain softened his own critique. >> is there anything ambassador rice can do to change your mind? >> sure. she can -- i give everyone the benefit of explaining their position and the actions that they took. and i'll be glad to have the opportunity to discuss these issues with her. >> she could conceivably get your vote for secretary of state? >> i think she deserves the ability and the opportunity to explain herself and her position. >> and weekly standard editor bill kristol, of course one of the more conservative interventionists out there, gave rice a backhanded compliment on "fox news sunday." >> i rather think he will appoint susan rice, and i think, i'm not a huge fan of hers, but she is likely to be confirmed by the senate. john kerry would be a worse secretary of state so just let him have the secretary of state he wants.

>> kristol's argument is rice has appeared more interventionist than john kerry. so the softening does not mean an end to the partisan battle over benghazi. republicans made it clear if rice is nominated they plan to make her confirmation hearing a proxy fight for their sustained prosecution of what they believe is the poor response to the september 11th attack. >> when she comes over, if she does, a lot of questions asked of her about this event and others. we're going to hold people accountable for a major national security breakdown three weeks before the election. that is our job. >> why did the administration think it had to cover up all of the things that occurred before by putting out to the american people the narrative that i think will be absolutely false? >> some republicans privately suggest the shift in the tone is a function of pragmatism that with just 45 seats in the senate, a filibuster of rice's nomination is much tougher to achaef. one senate aide told the associated press, quote, there's a definite sense within the

caucus that you have to be conservative about where you put your firepower. the question is whether the kau c caucus. >> he might be more comfortable with rice but may feel john kerry has earned this. in that sense it's a real question whether the noise over libya has made this decision any more difficult than it already was for the president. one more thing in the cabinet watch department. vetting candidates to replace tim geithner at treasury will take longer given finances have to be sifted through to avoid a tax embarrassment like the one that almost knocked geithner off of his path to treasury and it all goes through the senate finance committee. state department vetting is not done through the senate finance business. treasury is. and it makes for a nightmare. whoever is the next secretary of state will face an international agenda dominated by, what else, the tumult in the middle east. it has put president obama and secretary clinton in a familiar

bind. u.s. dependency on egypt is stabilizing force means the administration may be forced to look the other way when it comes to domestic abuses of power in that country. within days of acting as a helpful partner and forging the fragile peace between hamas and israel. mohamed morsi has taken advantage perhaps of u.s. support and solidified his own power exempting himself from judicial review until a new constitution is ratified. a process he has extended by two months. he dismissed the country's tern general. more than 500 people injured in four days of clashes between police and protesters who have set up tents in cairo's tahrir square and attack the offices of president mohamed morsi's freedom and justice party, the political wing of the muslim brotherhood. riot police in this video were caught brutally beating and dragging away several pr protesters. on sunday egypt's stock market lost nearly $9 billion or 10% of its value. the nation's judges have

threaten threatened to strike. the justice minister arguing publicly for him to change course and a handful of senior advisers have resigned. the truce with gaza which could be a feter in clinton's cap if it holds 0, the state department, though, in an awkward position. victoria newland release add very tentative statement expressing, quote, concern at morsi's decree and saying the following. we call for calm and encourage all parties to work together ar call for all egyptians to resolve their differences peacefully and through democratic dialogue. didn't take a position, did you notice that? senator mccain had tougher words for morsi threatening to withhold aid if his behavior doesn't change. >> what should the united states of america do? saying this is unacceptable. we thank mr. morsi for his efforts in brokering a ceasefire, which, by the way, is incredibly fragile. but this is not acceptable. and our dollars will be related to the progress of democracy which he promised the people of

egypt. oot muslim brotherhood and president morsi's opponents in cairo on tuesday ahead of those planned protests. today morsi will meet with the country's top judges in the hopes of solving this crisis. nbc's ayman joins us now. instead of the leader whose letter begins with 346 but it's not mubarak we're talking about, it's morsi. what's going on today? >> reporter: well, you're right. that's what the people here in tahrir square have been telling us, that they've replaced one dictator for another and, in fact, you can't really emphasize this enough. it's all about a domino effect here in egypt. let's start with the most developing news and that is a cairo court has agreed to hear a lawsuit by 60 lawyers for that decree he issued on thursday. this is precisely the problem morsi says he is facing day in and day out. every time he tries to take a

decision, it gets bogged down in a jew dish ary he says is corrupted and full of remnants of the old regime. that's what led him to issue this decree and why his supporters are saying this is good for the revolution. the problem is for a country of 80 million people coming out of 30 years of the mubarak dicta dictatorship, they don't trust anyone telling them, trust me with all the power and that is what is unfolding in egypt. on the one hand you have the exec it tiutive branch, the jud which many people like in egypt, don't believe is independent, hasn't lived up to the reforms. now they say they want to challenge president morsi's decree. that's why we're seeing this again. chuck? >> ayman, back in a familiar place. thanks vep. up next, fresh from their head shaving showdown, i have the dnc's brad woodhouse and the rnc's shawn spicer here to talk

about where their parties go from here in plotting 2014. republican rebellion. as the fiscal cliff looms, a signal to break from their no tax hike pledge. but, remember, all senate republic wrans are saying this. let us know when some house republicans do it. the president's schedule today, nothing too big on the docket. lots of holiday stuff will be sprinkled in the president's schedule over the next few days. the big question, though, this week when does he call for a meeting on fiscal cliff? have a good night. here you go. you, too. i'm going to dream about that steak. i'm going to dream about that tiramisu. what a night, huh? but, um, can the test drive be over now? head back to the dealership? [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back.

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there is a safety on this so

no lasting damage will be done. there you go. this is going to be good. >> if only washington cut spending like you cut hair. mission accomplished, right? >> we've cut some republican hair. now a little democratic hair. >> bipartisan. >> are you sure you're ready for this? >> i'm good! comb it over. >> this is just too good. >> in for a dime, in for a dollar, right? my kids are going to run. >> all right. you pulled it off, coming together for a good cause. brad woodhouse, shawn spicer, thank you very much. >> way too much john karl in that segment. hair today, gone tomorrow. that was for charity. a about bet before the election that whoever's candidate lost would have his head shaved to raise money for cancer research. spicer lost, of course, woodhouse agreed to sacrifice his hair as well.

both men joining me now. >> that's a scary sight. >> look at you two. it's a good thing you're both already married. there's no way your wife would like you. >> another bet without consulting nate silver. >> before we get to business here. tell me about the specific cancer research group. >> well, as you mentioned, we made this with bet. i lost the bet. and then brad got a call from an organization that raises money for childhood cancer. he in a good natured bipartisan way decided to jump in and do it together to raise money for this charity and -- >> where can people go? >> it's a wonderfully important charity that focuses all its attention on raising money for research into childhood cancers and they do -- they raise all their money by shaving heads.

that is the entire thing that they do to raise money. they shave celebrity heads. they would shave yours. we have clippers in the car. >> to the business at hand. this pledge, this grover norquist pledge, how important is it to the republican party? >> i think it's very important. >> do you think it's important for people who signed the pledge to keep it? >> i think it's important to remember the problem we have which is a spending problem and, frankly, i think we look at it in terms of any family. if your family is going into debt, the first thing you do is say, hey, dad, get a second is job and raise more revenue. you look at the family budget and say how do we cut? where do we get back? once that's done, we are still a little short to pay down the debt, how can we bring in more revenue? so i think before -- for a lot of these members of congress who have committed to saying the problem is spending, we need to reform our out-of-control entitlements, that's where the

focus should be. >> the base of the democratic party going to allow the president some leeway on this? >> we need to have everything on the table. let's be clear. >> social security? >> s ocial security is not contributing to the current debt or the deficit. social security is something that needs to be shored up. it's relatively easy to do compared to the other -- compared to the other problems, but we need to take a balanced approach to the other problems. this idea that we can just -- you know, the american people didn't believe the republican party's nominee who said we can just get rid of some of these deductions. we can get rid of some of the loopholes. that's not going to work. >> i don't understand the, frankly, the contortions being taken by some republicans to avoid raising the tax rate even a point or two at this point. can you explain why it's so important not to raise the rate at all even if it means getting rid of all sorts of deductions? >> because i think you have to say before you raise the rates

and say, hey, everyone needs to pay more, we need to look at things we can do to flatten the code, to grow the economy, why would you tell people they have to pay more, small businesses, individuals, before -- >> make them pay more by getting hatch the deductions. >> it makes it flatter and fairer and supports economic growth and stops picking winners and losers in some cases. we've been here in the '80s and put the revenue first. said, hey, we'll agree to the spending cuts that come down the road and most never materialized. we had the deficit reduction in graham rudman. >> we know the rates we had under clinton we had the best economy of the past 50 years. we can go back to those rates. >> i want to talk about both of your parties. brad woodhouse, one thing we have learned is when barack obama is on the ballot, there is a coalition that helps democrats win a lot of elections. when he's not on the ballot, the one time that he was head of the party but not on the ballot, the party got shellacked.

>> we were facing 10% unemployment. we had this debate over health care. one of the things we learned in this are the lessons that candidates and the party will take away is from president obama and that's to make early investments. that is to expand the map. that is to be on the ground, invest in data. invest in infrastructure. the 50 state strategy was a precursor to what barack obama it did. we're going to continue that. >> and, shawn, you have a problem with the more people that vote, the less likely the republicans can vote? >> we did very well in a lot of places. our ground game in every battleground state was up from 2008. it wasn't up enough except ohio probably. so i think what we need to do and what we are doing right now, the chairman has undertaken a full review of our ground game, our messaging, the metrics. everything that we can do in terms of messaging mechanics, tactics, what did we do well?

let's do more of that. what did we not do as well and how can we do better. >> priebus is running for another term. >> i had a discussion with debbie. i think she would like to stay but, you know, that decision will be made between her and the president. >> real quick, chuck, st. baldrick's, this is something we can come together on. be a hero. join brad and i. >> that's a great shirt. >> it is a great shirt. >> better looking than your heads. >> absolutely. >> you realize you have to make up your head. thank you both coming up. how do senate democrats manage to pull off wins in some of the reddest presidential states on the map? plus, are black friday shatters records for retailers. so will cyber monday do the same? the market rundown is next. but first, today's trivia question. how many times since 1945 have

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another early announcement for a 2014 senate bid. a big ruling on gay marriage and what does todd akin plan to do next? first, israeli defense minister barack announced he is quitting politics. he served as prime minister and said he will stay on the job

until the january 22nd election but would then take time to concentrate on his personal life. there had been talk that if he continued in the coalition government he might succeed netanyahu. remember, in israel to be a prime minister, you have to have lost as prime minister once. back here at home, congresswoman shelly capito will announce she is running for the seat held by jay rockefeller. capito's bid could put pressure on rockefeller who is 75 years old. he has indicated so far that he does plan to run again in 2014. there's always been speculation, though, that he may decide to retire. it's a big issue for senate democrat in 2014. a lot of veteran senators up like rockefeller, tom harkin, baucus, guys there three, four, five terms. the u.s. supreme court will decide whether it should consider legalizing gay marriage nationwide. there are several cases they could hear, some challenging the federal defense of marriage act,

one prop 8 and another case in arizona that could legalize it nationwide, banning it nationwide, or continue the current state laws. the question is how many of these cases do they take? do they roll them all into one? that's what we'll hopefully find out this week and, finally, after a failed senate bid, represe representative todd akin apparently decides he needs to write a book. the congressman told reporters he's still trying to recover from his loss but that he'll get over it quickly saying he has to find a new job soon since he has a mortgage to pay and to make and he might consider taking advantage of his new fame by writing a book. well, nearly 140 million adults shocked this weekend with the average shopper spending $423. that's a rise from last year's numbers. so how will wall street react this morning? becky quick is here with the market rundown. i don't get it. there are hatch the country is insane? >> yes. >> they shop on black friday?

>> i joined those crowds. >> you're crazy. >> i did not go out. did i it from my computer. i did it online. >> i did, too. >> there's no way if i ever had a day off, there's no way i'm getting up early in the morning to join those crowds out in the actual malls. >> wall street will be fired up today? >> you would think, chuck. this morning we're looking at the opening bell right now and it looks like the market will open down by about 60 points. that's probably because of what we saw last week, though. it was a huge market weekend. last week the dow was up by over 420 points in just 3 1/2 days the market was open and trading. that's a big bounceback from what we had seen a week and a half prior to that when we saw the market really concerned with about the fiscal cliff. congress was away last week. there wasn't any talk about the fiscal cliff. we'll see what happens this week because these negotiations continue. but those shopping numbers have given people a lot of reason to think maybe there's some good news out there. we see the numbers coming in on this today, cyber monday,s biggest online shopping day.

$1.5 billion in sales. chuck, i will admit, on amazon this morning, i got shut out by the deals i wanted to get. hey, it's worth a try. >> i guess you have to right that "r" button, refresh. thank you, becky. >> thank you, chuck. one of the tasks of political strength, how do you fare in unfriendly it territory? in today's deep dive we're taking a look at the democratic senators holding seats in some of the reddest presidential spots on the map. take a look at this.

in the new congress a dozen democrats will hold seats in states that voted for mitt romney. one in alaska, ed north dakota, south dakota, missouri, arkansas, louisiana, indiana and north carolina. democrats hold both senate seats in west virginia and montana. two members of that democratic class were newly elected this year. joe donnelly knocked off mourdock despite romney won by ten. heidi heitkamp. three more elected in red states including claire mccaskill over ed todd akin in missouri. john tester is your vafd a tight race to win by four in montana. the third was west virginia's joe manchin. he literally flipped romney's numbers completely securing a 25-point victory in a state where obama took a 26-point loss. how about the republicans? nine republicans will hold senate seats in states that

voted for president obama. that list includes senate veterans chuck grassley, susan collins of maine as well as wisconsin' ron johnson, mark kurt, rob portman, pat toomi, marco rubio and kelly ayotte. nevada's dean heller was the only to win in a blue state in the 2012 cycle. he narrow will he won over shelly berkeley despite the president winning the state by six. they have a none of the above. susan collins was the only other senator on the list to face voters while president obama was on the ballot. she won her third it term in 2008. the other seven were all elected or re-elected in the big republican wave of 2010. could republicans take back some of that territory in 2014 is this joining me now political analyst and editor and publisher of the cook political report, charlie cook. charlie, we have a senate announcement today. this is happenstance. we planned this last week and we can talk about 2014 and jay

rockefeller. >> at least shelly capito had the decency to wait until after thanksgiving. >> mike brown announced two weeks ago he was running in 2014. >> see, i wasn't paying attention then. >> fair enough. is this all chalked up to bad recruiting by the republicans, the success rate? >> i think what we've seen is two cycles in a row of very disappointing senate elections for republicans, that the time before 2010 they needed ten seats. they picked up six. which was a lot but not comparable to the 63 seats they picked up in the house. the thing is, i think the crew that you had this cycle and last cycle, i do it first rate. they're as good as any place. i think it's something larger. thumb one, i think they are having a hard time getting the same caliber candidates they used to get. that these people are choosing

not to go in and i don't think it's for a lack of effort. number two, sometimes when they do get in, they're not able to win their nominations because the party base has gotten so exotic and gone off overboard with other people or, three, when they do win the nomination, a lot of times the brand is so damaged in bad states like hawaii for linda, new mexico for heather wilson -- >> and great candidates, perfect candidates. you couldn't have asked for better candidates. >> and the brand is so badly damaged they can't win. >> i feel like -- is this deja vu for you? i know you have been dealing with senate elections going back to the '70s. and if you look at the democratic party of the '70s and '80s, their senate primaries used to be like republican primaries. so labor would force their candidate to win a primary. they couldn't get the good candidate and republicans would come in with a smile. >> i think that's exactly right. part of what's happened is this.

the old-fashioned republican party, they have sort of pulled back from active roles in the party. some of them have stopped voting in primaries altogether. and i think in one case some cases they don't even call themselves republicans anymore in polls they call themselves republican leaning independents which is one reason why -- >> it seems a little off. >> right. and it's why romney thought, hey, we're doing so well with independents. they're former republicans that are all they are and so i think you have a real problem with the republican party and it's not a problem -- >> it's special interest politics. basically they don't know -- they haven't figured out how to manage the interest groups even though it's different interest groups than the democrats had in the '80s. >> a lot times you have people with the stature you want looking at where the republican party is and saying i don't want to go there. i don't think they're getting the same caliber of people. they're trying to get them but those people are saying, no. i don't want any part of that. >> all right. let's talk about the map in

2014. i feel like this is deja vu. it's a similar map as in 2012. democrats defending more seats. this was the big '08. this was all these guys elected in '08. they're defending more seats in red states. you have alaska, the surprise victory there. you have landry, prior, some tough areas. and then there's a whole bunch of senate democratic veterans, jay rockefeller, tom harkin, dick durbin, baucus -- >> who may very well retire. >> that's what i was going to say. the first step to follow how well they're going to do. >> it's interesting. this last cycle was 2310, this is 2013. there's only one republican seat up that romney didn't win by a huge margin and that was in maine where olympia snowe -- i mean susan collins -- where romney lost by 15. the most vulnerable, just going by romney numbers, the most vulnerable seats up, chambliss and georgia cochrane, graham in

south carolina, sessions in alabama. >> and only in a presidential year could any of those remotely, potentially be -- >> maine is the only place democrats have any plausible target at least at this point. so that's the difference from last time. the dscc went out and recruited in places that looked laughable at the time. and hit gold a bunch of times. >> the big question is primaries. does chambliss get primary? two guys who may not fit what people think the southern republican conservativeship should look like. >> it's a question can republicans expand the tent back, get back to the big tent. >> it's how they're going to win in minnesota. how they're going to win in iowa. >> their tent has gotten very narrow and too narrow to win in a lot of swing states. >> all right. back her to start handicapping. we'll see. >> take care, chuck. up next, our monday political panel. first you want to know the white house soup of the day.

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let's get you on the right path. call today. ♪ more top lawmakers have expressed the need to break away from the anti-tax activist grover norquist. here is another one. >> the key here is whether or not the republicans will move away from the ideologically rigid position which has been the grover norquist pledge. >> a pledge signed 20 years ago, 18 years ago is for that congress. >> i will violate the pledge, long story short, for the good

of the kcountry only if democras will do entitlement reform. >> let me salute lindsey graham. what he said about revenue and taxes needs to be said on his side of the aisle. >> joining me now is the president of american bridge 21st century and a former spokesperson for harry reid and susan page and brad, a former spokesperson for brad. so you know the hill, the candidates well enough. susan, let me start with you. i feel like washington, we in the media get caught up. when senators speak, oh, wow, it must mean something. is it harsh to say it's 100 elected pundits that are a sideshow while the real action is between the white house? >> eric cantor's comments were more significant than what we've heard from senators yesterday on the sunday shows because it's not as though he made a promise that he was going to defy grover norquist and the conventional stance of his party but his tone was different. >> the tone has been there since

the election. >> but this is -- what stage are we in? we're not in the stage people put all their cards on the table. we have a couple weeks to go and i do think you are hearing -- you are seeing both sides trying to explore where is it we could possibly get a deal that gets us through the new year without going off the fiscal cliff? >> brad, we seem to have an idea where the white house will budge. they don't need to put tax rates all the way to 39%. is there any flexibility on the issue of tax rates and why is it doesn't appear to be among house republicans? >> grover norquist is like a reporter -- >> he really is. >> more than in republican conference. >> he does answer his phone. >> there's a change in tone and i think that's right. i think revenue is being put on the table. that's a huge move for the republican conference. rates are very tough for republicans. if you look back historically,

anytime a republican has raised rates, they've lost. >> and they've been primaries. >> people talk about object sti nens but we don't believe raising taxes is a good thing. raising revenue, there's a way to achieve that goal. but the times are also changed. everyone is facing a massive tax increase on 0 january 1st. they weren't doing that last summer. it's a different time. so we're putting revenue on the table. the real question is, is the white house willing to do something significant to get costs under control? >> harry reid and dick durbin said forget it. social security is not a part of this conversation. and yet the president has shown a willingness to do that. what happens if he publicly -- and republicans right now, their frustration is that the president will say that behind the scenes but he won't public ly talk about it as much as they want him to talk about it publicly. what happens politically on the left? >> i think there's some people on the left who would not appreciate having social security and medicare as part of this, as part of this

discussion. if we're in the talking phase, it doesn't hurt to talk about things that each side should put on the table. brad is right that the republicans have come a little bit with taxes. >> the discussion is not about should taxes go up. the discussion is how do you do it? >> exactly. and, listen, i think that to the extent we are just talking right now, i don't think that talking hurts. but should this become -- should this come in play, little there will be a lot of people on the left who will not be very happy. i think in some ways it is apples and oranges. i think what you're hearing is we will do this, however, you need to do the separate thing over there. i don't think social security has anything to do with it. >> let's talk raw numbers here. at the end of the day you have to find 218 house members. and in the past john boehner has said and, oh, by the way, his election is after the fiscal cliff. that happens a couple days after the fiscal cliff. so all of this maneuvering is complicated.

to get to 218 he has said he wants a majority of the majority, which is approximately 120 republicans, so then you have to find some nearly 100 democrats to do this as well, and if that has social security and medicare in it, can it happen? >> you are not going to have a deal that only has taxes and doesn't do anything about entitlements. that's not acceptable even no those who indicated they would defy the mythical grover norquist. so maybe not social security but medicare and medicaid, it's hard to believe you don't have a deal that includes those as well. what do we have in a compromise? no one is happy with it and everyone thinks it's important enough to go ahead and do. >> brad, very quickly, will boehner be willing to go to the floor without the majority? >> i think boehner will negotiate the best deal he can with all the members in mind. will he go to the floor? i don't think as a speaker you want to go to the floor with something your members don't support. it's going to take a while for him to bridge the gap between where the members are and where

they need to go. entitlement reforms are going to have to be a part. that's where the spending problem is. >> more on this in a minute. how many times since 1945 have both branches of congress and the white house been controlled by the same party? it hasn't happened often. it's ten times but it's varied, no lasted longer than i think four years at the most before a party was thrown out for at least one of them. a political trivia, e-mail us. we'll be write back. people love our potpourri parties. it's a smell of a good time. this is the juniper! oh that is magical. [ male announcer ] when you combine creamy velveeta with zesty rotel tomatoes and green chiles, you'll get a bowl of queso that makes even this get-together better.

let's bring back the panel. brad, i put on you the spot about house caucus republican politics. roe dell, "new york times" laid out a very arcane thing but frustration among the amateur watchers of politics about senate filibusters and why can't it all be mr. smith? you have to stay there and argue on the floor until somebody says

no. harry reid has been reluctant to change the rules and apparently this time he has to change the rules. explain what you believe he is going to do and how the rules will change and how they won't change. >> i think there are two things. there is the filibusters of the large pieces of legislation. that will remain. it should. then i think there is the wasting time that happens in the united states senate. filibusters just to get on a bill. you filibuster to even decide whether or not you you want to debate a bill. >> that he will try to pass ledge la i guess that gets rid of that something and that will allow, it is really about allowing the senate to work and actually taking stuff up and actually debating what you say. if you're filibustering, you're filibustering the bill itself and it used to be the radio you will that brought the bill to the floor. >> it is about wasting time. are you talking about you have to file this motion and wait two

days to do anything and you have to file this motion and wait another two days to do anything and it is doing barely anything in that time. >> is harry reid playing with fooir? susan page, be careful what you wish for. >> so much frustration, especially the newer members. >> they all want to move this along. >> and among the public they look at what's going on and think what in the world is washington thinking? there is not a silver bullet that will fix washington and make it work in some imaginary way. there are a series of rather reasonable steps you could take that would help things and this is one of them. >> we could go back to the good old days and bring back caning. >> that's probably more of a house thing. >> that's the criticism. will the senate look more like the house? that is not -- >> i think one of the things that shouldn't take place is be more part sab and dig in more.

>> we shall see. shameless plugs. you first. >> happy birthday to shelly and her press secretary. >> on her birthday. >> she is announcing for the senate and i think she will be a welcome member. >> once the filibuster rules don't take shape. >> i think mcconnell is wondering where were you the three other times. smart. >> today is cyber monday and tomorrow is giving tuesday. here is one charity to think about if you have somebody that has everything you need and thinking about a christmas gift, kick start.org and two guys experienced in swernt charitable organizations and develop mobile water pumps for farmers in subsaharan africa and changing lives one family at a time. >> wish a happy birthday to my god son in north dakota. chances are he is watching sesame street but if he happens to be watching. >> accidental. huge with kids. >> yeah. yes. happy birthday. >> that's it.

tomorrow on the show virginia governor bob mcdonnell joins us to talk about where he sees the future of the republican party. he put out a statement on gaza by the way, the governor of virginia. what is he looking at?

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it's as easy as... -[ man ] 1... -[ woman ] 2... [ woman ] 3. [ male announcer ] the bankamericard cash rewards card. apply online or at a bank of america near you. good monday morning. hope you had a good thanksgiving. i am chris jansing. we're watching both sides start to make their moves, stake out positions and try to carve out a deal that doesn't carve up domestic programs across the country. of course we're talking about the fiscal cliff, two big developments. first, a few more key republicans have said they're willing to break navigator kwis's antitax pledge and look at raising revenue and even the house majority leader said republicans realize they have to make a deal. >> it is not about that pledge. it is about trying to solve problems. as we know this election was very much about, number one, what are we going to